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E41: Growing apart in your relationship

It’s everyone’s worst fear – that this beautiful, fantastic love will one day fade away and you’ll be left in a loveless marriage or relationship. In this episode, we discuss growing apart in your relationship, what’s natural and what you should regard as a red flag. It’s natural for your relationship to change and evolve, and for you both to grow as people. Listen for tips on how to navigate the ups and downs of growing as a couple, and individuals – rather than growing apart. 

Can’t listen? Read on for the full episode transcript:

Aindrea: Hi everyone, welcome to episode 41 of From Long Distance to Marriage. This week we wanted to talk a little bit about something you see couples talking about a lot, which is growing apart. I think that people in long distance relationships and non-distance relationships experience this in different ways but also in very serious ways. I think, you know, we’ve had messages from people in long distance relationships who are concerned that they’re growing apart as a couple. That’s a really easy thing to worry about when you’re in a long distance relationship, because it can feel like you’re growing apart really easily. Don’t you think?

Rich: Yeah.

Aindrea: I mean, you are apart [laughs]. Like, you’re far away from each other so it’s really easy to feel like “Ohh”. Maybe when they get a bit busier or maybe they have some obligations going on in life, something else is dividing their attention from being as focused on you as it normally is, you can feel like “Oh no, what’s going on? Are things changing? Are we growing apart?” And sometimes people can just grow apart in a long distance relationship, it’s a lot to maintain, it’s quite challenging, people can get a bit down about it and can kind of withdraw inside themselves.

Rich: I think with long distance there’s also the element of out of sight, out of mind. If they’re not physically present, it’s very easy when someone’s not around you to be distracted with other things, whereas if you’re living together I think the growing apart is much more of a, you know, it’s not a physical thing because they’re there. Your interests change or your feelings towards that person change. In a way it’s more brutal and I think a lot of that comes from possibly taking them for granted, like you just get used to them being there and it’s like, “They’re there and that’s what they do and I’m going to do my own things now” and kind of forgetting to reconnect. And I think the big one is also people growing differently.

Aindrea: Yeah. I think that’s something that people need to ask themselves if they’re starting to be concerned about this, is “Are we growing apart or are we growing as people?” And sometimes that can feel like a bad thing, like it can feel when you’re growing as people that you’re growing apart as a couple, and that’s not necessarily always the case. But I think the really important thing to be aware of and remember is that when you’re a couple and you’re together for a while, things do start to change anyway and that’s normal and that’s natural. You’re not always going to be in the honeymoon period, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. You know, where in the honeymoon period you know it’s maybe a bit more physical, dreamy, googly eyes; once you get out of that it doesn’t mean that things aren’t still amazing. Your connection gets deeper, you begin to know each other like no one else knows you, and intimacy really becomes a big part of it. So I think people in that transition might be thinking “Oh no, we’re growing apart” when really your relationship could just be transitioning.

Rich: Yeah. I think people, if we talk about marriage for a second, people think about their vows like “I promised to be with that person” to physically stay with them, but I think actually the commitment is much more that you promised to make a life together, and being with that person includes, you know, you have a responsibility to you and them to grow too. I don’t mean that in a way like you have to do everything they want to do and you give up all autonomy, but if you’re still the same person at 40 that you were at 20

Aindrea: That’s not good.

Rich: That’s not good. It’s not good on you and you can’t really be surprised that your partner feels like there’s a bit of a disconnect, because they’ve hopefully got 20 years of growth and development in there. And it doesn’t mean that you’re not the same person at all, but you should have grown and developed and had some change in interests and whatever.

Aindrea: Mmhmm. And I think, yeah, I think we’re always the same person. I was listening to an interview with I think it was Steve Madden, the shoe designer, and he was saying “I don’t believe we grow old, our bodies grow old. I’m a 61 year old man right now and I still feel the same way in my head as I did when I was 10 years old.” Like, we are always, you know, unless something drastic and extreme happens, we are still the core of who we are but our drive changes, our ambitions and dreams, our interests.

Rich: Hopefully our opinions on things change.

Aindrea: Yeah. I mean life shows you so much. Even if you’re not directly involved in it, the things happening in the world today should influence you and make you think about your opinions and change some, and things like that. Do I feel like you’re the same exact person you were since years ago when we finally met in person? No you’ve changed, grown, in a lot of ways. You’re still the same person, your values and your personality, and all those things I loved about you are the same but, you know, you’ve matured in a lot of ways, your style’s quite different, the way you dress is different. Like you know, it would be weird if you were still the same as you were when you were 23 years old. Because you’re 33 almost now.

Rich: Yeah. So the commitment that you make to each other, and okay if you’re not married and you haven’t done the vows yet the commitment principle is still the same. It’s not just about, you know, “I promised to love this version of you and then when you change I’m going to change my mind”, you should be on this journey of development together. And interests are going to change and that’s okay, and you can grow apart and have different hobbies and different interests and have time away from each other doing things but it’s about the core of the relationship is what you’re working at, and you have to ask yourself “Am I doing my bit to uphold the bargains?” You might be thinking “My partner’s changed, and that’s not fair” and you can really project that onto them. That they’ve changed and it’s not fair and we made a commitment, or she made a commitment to me that she, whatever. But it’s like, the love is still there, but your side of that bargain isn’t to just love that version of the person that you met and it isn’t to just stay static throughout life. You’ve got your part to play.

Aindrea: Yeah totally, and I think people sometimes think that, we’ve all seen these charts of like “How you think your journey’s going to go” and it’s like an uphill things.

Rich: Straight line.

Aindrea: Yeah. Uphill or straight line. And then it’s “How it actually goes” and it’s up and it’s down and it’s peaks and valleys.

Rich: Like the stock market.

Aindrea: Yeah, and I think people probably think a relationship is really going to be like that, but when you think about this you’ve got two people so then you’ve got two lines on this chart, and people grow at different rates and people sink at different rates, and very rarely are you both at the same exact place in life even though you have the same life together. Like, you may not be in the same frame of mind, you may not be in the same physical fitness shape, you may not be earning as much in your jobs as each other. Things aren’t always going to line up, and it’s really important to know that. And also it’s important to know that if one of you is way down here on the chart and the other one is way up there, that’s okay. The one that’s way up there has a responsibility to try and pull the other one up. And those places will continually change; sometimes it’s you pulling me up, sometimes it’s me pulling you up. It’s not just A to B, we got married and then many many years we die old and happy. There’s a lot of shit in between and a lot of it’s up and down. And there may be periods in your relationship or marriage where you do grow apart a little bit; maybe that’s because one of you has a new demanding job, or one of you is staying at home with the children and that’s really demanding. And yeah, your relationship is, for lack of a better word, suffer, or be affected. But it can all be temporary. You can bring that, it’s what you put into it, you can do what you want. 

Rich: Yeah, and anyone who has this expectation that it’s going to be easy or that the agreement is only while everything stays the same, well hopefully no one has that opinion because it’s ridiculous, I mean even if you, as soon as you have children that’s going to change, as soon as you have a job that takes up slightly more time that’s going to change. It’s all going to change and, like you said, if we don’t change fundamentally then the commitment you made is to love the fundamental part of that person, not everything surrounding that. You know, not “Oh I promised to love you as long as you were home every night at 6”. Things are going to change that maybe mean they can’t be home every night at 6, maybe they have a job that requires more, maybe they’ve got hobbies and interests that develop, all that’s going to change. 

I saw something on Twitter the other day and I don’t know how I found it, I sort of stumbled across this post from this guy who apparently doesn’t agree with marriage and long term relationships, and I don’t fully believe it because he was saying “I’ve got 15 married friends and they all tell me they never have sex and this is proof that we’re not supposed to have long term relationships and marriages.” I think maybe that sounds a bit extreme, that all 15 people that he knows don’t have sex, but I think the principle of what he’s saying is something you hear a lot. Like people saying “I’m not getting married because the sex suffers” and stuff. And I think the evidence is against that, I think one of the things I’ve also been seeing is study after study showing that men in particular are happiest and most fulfilled when in a long term relationship, because I think men in particular have this idea that we’re incredible, you know like we can get any woman we want, we can get all the sex we want, but the reality is most men are average, you’re not going to have sex on top if you’re single, and so there’s going to be frustration and a lack of fulfilment in that.

But there is still the conversation of when you’re having sex with the same person for 10, 20, 30 years, there’s an amazingness that comes with that but it’s also true that you’re not going to have that same spark after 30 years as you’re going to have one day one when it’s fresh and tingly. So that takes commitment and 

Aindrea: I dunno, you make me tingle.

Rich: Well the tingle’s going to be there but you know what I mean. You haven’t got the nervous apprehension as at the beginning, and all those other little emotions. What you have instead is this incredible connection and familiarity, but it’s different and it does require a commitment to keep pursuing things.

Aindrea: Yeah, and I think just, on sex when you’re been together for a long time, everyone’s sex lives are so different and people have so many different, you know, a wide range of interests in the bedroom, some people like to use toys, some people like to get really in their bondage and safe words, and some people are very happy with what a lot of people call “vanilla”, but all of that is absolutely 100% more than okay, you know, great. Whatever works for you as a couple and makes you feel really aroused and everything is great. But I do think that as you’ve been together longer, sex can be a great way to ground the two of you. You know, if you are off and you’ve got demanding jobs or you’ve got kids or one of you is going through something like I’ve had periods of anxiety and depression and sex can be a really great thing to bring you back to “Oh god, yeah, I just love every inch of you.”

Rich: Literally.

Aindrea: Yeah. That one little inch, that’s just great. [Laughs] That’s a joke. [Laughs]. But do you know what I mean? It’s a great way, I know sex isn’t all that matters by any means but it is a great anchor for your relationship. And let’s be honest, it’s one of the first things that really excited you about each other, like in the early days sex is completely thrilling. So I think if you are going through a period where you’re feeling a bit like life is pulling you apart a little bit and you have to fight to maintain things, look at your sex life.

Rich: I think the big change with sex is in the early days it’s probably more spontaneous and it’s possibly more frequent, just because the whole emotion and feelings in the relationships are very different in the early stages, and as time goes on you have to have the conversations around… Well maybe you don’t have to have the conversations but there may be more of a…

Aindrea: Effort in planning.

Rich: Yeah. And conversations around “Shall we try this or try that?” or “You know what, life’s getting busier now” especially for people who have children, quite a lot of people have success in scheduling it, so they know when it’s happening, that makes it easier for everyone involved. If it works for you. But I think where people might come unstuck is expecting five or 10 years down the line it’s gonna be the same as it was at the beginning, because life just changes and I think the big problem people get is routine. Like “Okay well it’s Wednesday night and we go upstairs at seven and we do 10 minutes of missionary, two minutes of oral and we’re back downstairs.” If you’re finding yourself in any variation of a routine, that’s probably not gonna keep everyone very happy for very long.

Aindrea: No. And that being said, like you said people have success with scheduling it, so that might mean that yes, every Wednesday and every Saturday are our sex days, but that shouldn’t be “We do 10 minutes of missionary”, maybe throw an outfit in this time or maybe throw a toy in this time.

Rich: You know what would be a good idea? I’ve literally just thought of this. We might do this ourselves now.

Aindrea: Oh might we?

Rich: Ages ago on Instagram we shared this picture of the little pot, do you remember we each wrote down 10 things that we wanted to do? It wasn’t necessarily sex, you had hold hands in there.

Aindrea: You had make hot cocoa and watch a film.

Rich: Yeah, so basically the pot was put in the living room and we’d each pick out one thing at random and say “Let’s do this today.” It has to be mutually agreeable of course, but it was a fun little way of doing something spontaneous. You could have a sex version of that. So you could say “Okay well, Sunday afternoon is our schedule day but each week or every two weeks,” or whatever schedule that you decide, you take one thing out of the jar and it could be wear an outfit, watch a porno, do it against the window, whatever. But each of you can put in five or 10 things and that would help.

Aindrea: And it doesn’t just have to be, I think when people think about spicing up sex to keep yourselves close, it doesn’t have to be a huge dramatic like, you don’t have to reenact a porno, you don’t have to do big old role playing if that seems weird to you.

Rich: Well and I think also, maybe through porn, I don’t know, but I think these days there’s probably much more conversation around does spicing things up mean involving someone else, or going dogging, or, do you know what I mean? It doesn’t have to be.

Aindrea: Yeah. Spicing it up just means different from what you normally do. So that could mean…

Rich: It doesn’t have to be intimidating either.

Aindrea: No. 

Rich: It should be something that you enjoy but you just don’t think about that often.

Aindrea: It could just be getting, you know, some flavoured massage oil.

Rich: Or going to a hotel.

Aindrea: Or going to a hotel. It could be just using…

Rich: Or it’s all about you one day and then it’s all about them the next.

Aindrea: Or just taking a leaf out of the 50 Shades of Grey book, the first one where he uses a silk tie to tie her up. You don’t have to go out and buy loads of expensive, like, contraptions and things. It’s just going it a little bit different.

Rich: So you could say, “Okay well Sunday at two o’ clock, that’s sex time but it’s your turn to take something out of the sex jar.” You know, that could be a way of spicing it up. I think we should do that. I’ve excited myself.

Aindrea: I think we do a pretty good job.

Rich: Yeah, we do. But, we’re both sort of aware that it takes, things change over time.

Aindrea: Yeah.

Rich: I think some people could easily get offended.

Aindrea: Well I think also, and I don’t think this is unique to us as a couple at all but I think it’s unique to couples who have been together maybe not for a long time but a little while, a couple of years maybe. Not being afraid to ask for what you want.

Rich: Yeah. 

Aindrea: And that might mean, “Oh, put me in this position” or “Touch me there” or “Kiss me here.” Or it might mean put on that outfit, or “I wanna watch this porn and I wanna reenact it as we’re watching,” whatever.

Rich: And I think this is what gets easier with long term relationships, because at the beginning there’s like judgement or fear of judgement. If you’re on date one, you might not be saying “Spank me” or whatever it might be. If it’s a one night stand this person is largely a stranger and if they’re not a stranger but it’s your first time or your first few times then it’s just very different. Whereas after, you know, we’re on the cusp of a decade here and it’s like, there’s not really much fear of judgement there.

Aindrea: Well I think also in early days of a sexual relationship you’re kind of, you don’t want to come across as too this or too that, and you almost feel like the sex has to be great just naturally together. And usually it is in the beginning anyway because you’re both so fired up all the time, and as you get to know each other okay maybe it’s not as frequent or as spontaneous, but I think the quality of it can get loads better.

Rich: Yeah it’s something that you can’t really explain to people who have never had a long term relationship. The sex changes and the emotional connection’s different, and also there’s not as much pressure. Like if we have a bad session, we’ve had a couple where we’ve just started laughing, like “What the fuck is happening?”

Aindrea: “Have we not done that before?” [Laughs] Sometimes your groove’s just off.

Rich: You don’t think “Oh no she’s going to tell all her friends at school that it’s terrible.” Whereas it’s just like “Okay, well we’ll try again tomorrow.”

Aindrea: Yeah, a new day’s coming. 

Rich: Or we’ll finish another way, you know. So it’s just, there’s familiarity and comfort there in a really positive way. This episode wasn’t supposed to be all about sex but I think everything we’ve just said also spills over into every other aspect of relationships.

Aindrea: We’re really talking about an emotional distance in relationships if you’re growing apart, but all I meant is that sex can be a great way to ground you as a couple.

Rich: Yeah but what I was going to say was that everything we’ve just said about it, you have to put more effort into it over time and that little jar of ideas, we did that outside of sex stuff.

Aindrea: It was sex and non-sex stuff we did.

Rich: Yeah, but it wasn’t specifically for the bedroom. It was, like you said, “Let’s have cocoa and watch a film tonight,” “Let’s do this let’s do that.” The point is yes that stuff all applies in the bedroom but it also applies just in your relationship in general. And that’s a pretty good technique for doing something that you wouldn’t normally do, to avoid the monotony of come home, sit down, watch Netflix, or whatever it is you do. You’re also allowed to have your own hobbies, you’re allowed to have changing interests.

Aindrea: Encouraged to, I would say.

Rich: Encouraged, yeah. And then, you just have to still make time for the relationship and you have to still consider how that relationship is growing. If you’re, I don’t want to say it’s a job but if you sit down for a minute and take the same approach you do with your job, “Okay, how am I doing?” I say this because I think people are more worried at work, like “Does my manager think I’m not doing a good job? What can I do to increase my chances of promotion?” If you just sit down with the same type of honest approach and think, “Am I there enough for my partner? Am I doing what I promised to do? Am I doing what I should be doing?” Because it’s too easy to blame and say, going back, “I’m not getting enough sex because they’re not giving me enough sex” where maybe you’re not getting enough sex because you’re not making yourself appealing enough. And I don’t mean that in a physically attractive way, I just mean are your actions such that your partner is like “Yeah, I want to have sex with you.”

Aindrea: I stumbled across an article this morning, just kinda randomly, I was scrolling through my Pinterest stuff, my feed, and I found this article that said something about, it was like 10 things that men need to hear from their female partners. And the article was about how there’s so many articles aimed at men for what your wife or girlfriend needs to hear, or whatever, and there’s actually not much of an emphasis on the things that men need to hear. And I think that men traditionally – and this may be me being a bit 1950s – but they’re traditionally the breadwinners, they’re traditionally the ones that maybe feel a lot of pressure to make sure everything in the household, while the women do tonnes but I think that men are just programmed to feel like they’re the leaders of the household. Whether they are or not, maybe they don’t earn as much or something, but I just think that men are programmed to feel like they need to lead and protect and all this stuff. And as a result, men don’t always get the praise that they need. Something in there that stuck with me was like, you were just talking about being there for your partner and one of the things that they said was men aren’t great at communicating, so when they do open up and when they do kind of share like something vulnerable, something bothering them, it’s really important that the woman says – and women find it fucking sexy when men open up or when men apologise; it’s not even the act of apologising it’s just the communication of “I’m admitting, I’m communicating, I’m self aware.” That’s a fucking turn on. And so I think that on a side note from what you were saying, both partners need to be there for each other, and in doing so you do make yourself more appealing but also it’s up to your partner to let you know “I really love that you did that, and it makes me want you more” kind of thing, and that can be a driving factor. Communicating what you love about each other. And I think it’s so easy to get caught up on what each other’s doing wrong, and we’re always telling each other that, but how often do we actually as couples say “You’re doing a great job with this lately, it’s exactly what I need from you and thank you.” I think those are all things that can help you from feeling like you’re growing apart.

Rich: Yeah, it’s totally true. And we’ve both acknowledged it and mentioned it that we still thank each other. Like when you cook dinner, I thank you for it. If I clean the kitchen, you thank me for it. And it’s not a thank you like “Oh this is such a rare treat, I’m so grateful for it.” It’s just a little acknowledgement that…

Aindrea: You’ve made my day easier.

Rich: Yeah. Or that you’re just grateful that something’s been done for you. 

Aindrea: Or for the house. Yeah. Every time we do something, even still, we’ve been married a long time but if Rich takes me out for dinner, then I thank him. Or if he, even if it’s his birthday or I treat him for some reason, he says “Thank you.” Nothing is expected in our relationship. Even though we have high expectations, it’s not expected, if that makes sense. Like, we know that it’s not a given that people do this for each other. And one last little thing that I wanted to back up to, was I think particularly couples who were long distance but no longer are, I think that once you finally do get to be together all the time you feel like you’re making up for lost time. And I think that we, and it was driven by me at first, were guilty of this, where we built everything around each other when I first moved here. And it was almost like “I don’t want to see anyone else, I’m making up for all this lost time with you” and then when maybe, probably the first thing you did was join a band, and that took you away from me a little bit. And I thought “Ooh actually, it’s kinda nice to have an evening to myself where I can read or get stuff done around the house or just sit down and watch shitty chick flicks or whatever,” and I think just be conscious of that, because if you’ve built a life for the two of you where you’re together all the time, naturally life is going to change that at one point or another, and it can feel like “Oh no, we’re growing apart,” but you just need to look at it with a healthy attitude, like I mention, “Oh this is actually nice, now I can, what things do I want to do, what hobbies do I want to try?” I think growing apart can feel worse if you’ve built your life in such a way that you’re constantly around each other all the time. That’s not always healthy. It’s good to have your own space and your own time. 

Rich: Yeah. You know, you owe it to be a partner, to your partner. But your first responsibility is to yourself, and this kinda ties in with what we were saying in the previous episode about your partner not completing you. You still need to make time for your hobbies and your interests and your development, and then you just have to come back to the relationship and, as far as growing apart, it’s recognising when that might be happening and having the conversation. The conversation may not even be needed if you’re recognising it and then able to make the adjustments.

Aindrea: Well the conversation might be necessary but it doesn’t have to be a big dramatic “Oh my God, we’re drifting apart!” It can just be “Hey is everything okay with you, I feel like we’ve been a bit isolated lately, do we need to regroup?” That’s all it needs to be, as a first thing. And if it’s “Yeah I’m really unhappy with you” then obviously it needs to become a different type of conversation.

Rich: Yeah and obviously this is also very very different depending on what stage of the relationship you’re in. If you’re in a marriage and you’re years deep and you’ve established love and trust and all that, and this is just “Oh this isn’t what it used to be.”

Aindrea: We’ve all seen that in our parents, I think. 

Rich: Yeah, but that is something that, one, you probably want to salvage, and two, probably something you can salvage and it takes a bit of effort. Don’t let pride get in the way, or bitterness. Just think, like, “What made me want to be with this person in the first place?” Remember that, and then take that forward. But if this is a new relationship, or you’re long distance or whatever and actually what you’re seeing is red flags that this person isn’t that interested in you, or isn’t interesting, and it’s just generally hard work to get off the ground, that’s very different. That’s red flag of “Is this worth it?” So, you know, have a very different outlook on growing apart when you’re  established and years into it, and brand new and it’s a sign that you two aren’t as compatible as you thought. And I think with long distance that’s particularly important, because what you can actually fall in love with is not the person but the idea of that person. And because they’re not around you can build up this image of them in your mind, and then you can convince yourself that’s who they are, and then because there’s so much time when you’re not talking and you’re not together, when you have the conversations and “Oh actually he was kind of a dick tonight”, when you hang up you can just tell yourself he was having an off night. Because you’ve built up this image of them. And you have to be very honest with yourself about that.

Aindrea: Yeah. And that can be a hard thing to do when you’re trying to make a relationship work. It can be really hard to be honest and matter of fact with yourself. But yeah, I think it’s recognising if you’re growing apart or growing as people, which can sometimes make it feel as though you’re growing apart a little bit. But yeah, I think that’s probably a good place to wind things down.